Tucker Carlson Leaving Fox News

Okay so what exactly are we suppose to do then just support Ukraine until the end whatever that looks like? Seriously dude you sound like a spokesman for Raytheon at this point. We need to look at reality and balance a Russian victory against what we would actually lose and gain at this stage of things.
I'll take being a spokesman for Raytheon over being an isolationist.
Far as I can tell a Russian victory means Europe starts to carry its own weight from now own. Also Ukraine still exists just a bit reduced in its territory.
And that's going to be the end of history and nothing will happen further? Yeah, sure.
If i believed that would be the end of the conflict for good, it would be a deal to consider.
But i don't. It would be peace for 2 years, 5 years, maybe even 10. Then Russia would take another shot at Ukraine's existence as an independent state, by covert or overt means. And then Russia will use this for further expansion into Central Europe, using whatever weak points in NATO and EU exist at that time. Ukraine is going to be better off trying to make it an open fight until Russia gets tired of it for longer term, preferably gets a crippling crisis from trying too hard even, it's better than having to pretend there's peace while a Damocles sword hangs over it and Russia can strike again at any moment.
 
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You're talking about what rights people have in Russia.

I'm talking about what rights an American has.

It seems we are talking past each other.

I am talking about Tucker's rights as an American. It doesn't matter if the controversial figure is a foreigner. It doesn't matter if their country is an authoritarian fascist shithole. I'm talking about American rights. You said Tucker doesn't have a right to interview Putin. I am saying Tucker has the right to interview anyone who is willing to sit down with him. Laws and rights in Russia DON'T MATTER. Putin is willing to talk with him, and as an American journalist, he is granted the rights by our constitution to conduct the interview.

Russia's laws and lack of rights don't matter - Tucker isn't Russian. He's American.
I don't know how to get through to you what I'm trying to get through to you. I'm not Bacle, I'm not arguing he should be arrested. I'm arguing that he's either knowingly or unknowingly allowing himself to be used as a shill. It's hilarious because the Kremlin corrected him on Twitter when he got a big head and was bragging about how he was the first American journalist to try to interview Putin. They made it more obvious for him. There is literally nothing to be gained for him and everything to lose. He already comes off as a shill and this is just going to make him look like a Hanoi Jane, and I'm all for him getting that treatment if his "interview" pans out the way I think it will. At best he's just going to look like a dumbass. He never had any kind of right to interview Putin, but he is being allowed to. Why? Seems obvious to me - Putin seems him as useful.

Ah, another bad faith poster. We're discussing his right to interview him as an american, how that isn't treason, not any Russian rights, but you know that as does everyone else with basic reading comprehension. Literally the most blatantly obvious and idiotic strawman argument I've ever seen on a forum.
No, you just aren't getting my argument and have your head up your fourth point of contact. :cautious:

I doubt it. Captain X is usually good faith.
Thanks.
 
I remember early in the Invasion the pro-Invasion commentators were gloating how after capturing Ukraine Russia would have control over a significant majority of grain and fertilizer production and certain metal manufacturing which I can look up later and what a win it'd be that the West couldn't do anything to stop. 😇
Hell, I still remember people claiming there wouldn't be an invasion, and it was all a psyop by globohomo.

vatnik cope.jpg
 
I don't know how to get through to you what I'm trying to get through to you. I'm not Bacle, I'm not arguing he should be arrested. I'm arguing that he's either knowingly or unknowingly allowing himself to be used as a shill. It's hilarious because the Kremlin corrected him on Twitter when he got a big head and was bragging about how he was the first American journalist to try to interview Putin. They made it more obvious for him. There is literally nothing to be gained for him and everything to lose. He already comes off as a shill and this is just going to make him look like a Hanoi Jane, and I'm all for him getting that treatment if his "interview" pans out the way I think it will. At best he's just going to look like a dumbass. He never had any kind of right to interview Putin, but he is being allowed to. Why? Seems obvious to me - Putin seems him as useful.


No, you just aren't getting my argument and have your head up your fourth point of contact. :cautious:


Thanks.
Russia. Does. Not. Dictate. Tucker's. Rights.

As I have said from the beginning, Tucker has the right to interview anyone who is willing to sit with him. Putin is willing to sit with him, therefore, as an American journalist, Tucker has a right to interview him.

You seem to be claiming that I think Tucker can just demand an interview from anyone and they have to do it. Which is nonsense. I have said from the beginning that he has the right to interview anyone who is WILLING to talk to him. So none of what you just said actually matters. Who cares if a Russian fact checked Tucker? Who cares if Putin turned down other interviews? What's that have to do with Tucker's rights?

I'm trying hard to believe you are debating jn good faith, but I can't figure out what connection you aren't making.
 
Nah, they don't.

If Ukraine won't stop, they war keeps on. It takes 2 to stop.
...Ukraine has very clear victory conditions.

Once Russian forces are off of Ukrainian soil, they are eligible for admission into NATO. Once they are in NATO, Russia can no longer afford to attack.

Ukraine also has a clear reason to stop at their own borders; defensive use of nuclear weapons is the one type that's considered marginally acceptable by the international community, because every nuclear power says that they will do it. If Ukraine starts trying to take territory from Russia, there's a real chance Russia nukes them over it.

Note that the one offensive into Russian territory Ukraine ran, was run by a volunteer unit of Russians who sided with Ukraine, because Ukraine is very wary of provoking exactly that kind of response.

They did not choose this war but they also cannot win this war and Putin can.
Again, you just assert that Ukraine can't win, but the Russians can, without even a shred of evidence that either of these statements are true.

Bluntly put, I think that even if almost all western support was lost, Ukraine would still be more likely to win than Russia, because the Ukrainians know damned well what will happen to them if they lose, and fighting tooth and nail with what equipment they can scrounge together for themselves is a better option than that.
 
13.5% vs 17% is a 21% relative difference, wouldn't call that far worse.
When it's already in a bad state, yeah, it's far worse. And for just males in their 20s it's near a 40% difference.
Then you think wrong. It would be a major threat of NATO unraveling, and if you think that's not a significant effect on US long term strategic thinking you probably give up on thinking about these things.
No, it very much wouldn't. Russia being a threat actually guarantees NATO doesn't unravel. Russia not being perceived as a threat is what weakened NATO from the 90s thru 2020.

Russia and China are buddies in wanting US global influence to go down, there is no "but China is the actual enemy", they will absolutely cooperate in that goal, even if in nothing else. Ditto for Iran, NK and several others. For all the retarded shit they do, at least the other side is not finding brainless the sheer willful blindness cult called isolationism appealing these days.
Yes, they want US global influence down. Yes, they are buddies. But that doesn't refute what I'm saying. A strong Russia necessitates NATO actually grouping up, and a stronger NATO is a stronger US.

Hence why if Russia wins, it's not even bad for the US, because NATO will also band up together. For the two player game of NATO vs Russia, Russia wins relative power: it's power increases more than the US's does. But once we factor in China in a 3 player game? China is the big loser here, just because they aren't playing. A stronger NATO hurts China. A stronger Russia hurts China as they compete for control of BRICS/whatever sorta alliance they come up with.

For a kinda similar example, look at what's happened recently with Israel, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. Iran getting stronger strengthened Israel as they were able to get Saudi Arabia to get ever closer to an Israeli alliance (they wouldn't call it that, but that's what it is). Israel's enemy getting stronger helped it. Quite simply, you aren't looking at follow on events and how different groups interact.

As far as the US is concerned, the Ukraine war is gambling with house money. Maybe we permanently end Russia as a threat forever by adding Ukraine, but either way we add Finland and Sweden to NATO and also reinforce NATO togetherness by providing an enemy. This really hits the ability of Russia to attack the Baltics, one of the key weaknesses in a Russian attack on NATO.
 
When it's already in a bad state, yeah, it's far worse. And for just males in their 20s it's near a 40% difference.
Only, not just. A big part of that is migration, Russians can't go to EU so easily, but that doesn't mean those Ukrainians never will return.
No, it very much wouldn't. Russia being a threat actually guarantees NATO doesn't unravel. Russia not being perceived as a threat is what weakened NATO from the 90s thru 2020.
Russia will remain a threat until political changes, the only difference is if its gonna be more or less distant one.
It's the appeasement lobby that wants Ukraine to delude itself about Russia deals and make idiotic compromises in the name of that which is the core of the threat - if they get their way on Ukraine, the other countries nearby will have to wonder what "compromise" will these clowns demand for them, and what's the point of NATO if its just gonna send helpful suggestions for terms of surrender, we can just call France if we ever want that.
Yes, they want US global influence down. Yes, they are buddies. But that doesn't refute what I'm saying. A strong Russia necessitates NATO actually grouping up, and a stronger NATO is a stronger US.

Hence why if Russia wins, it's not even bad for the US, because NATO will also band up together. For the two player game of NATO vs Russia, Russia wins relative power: it's power increases more than the US's does. But once we factor in China in a 3 player game? China is the big loser here, just because they aren't playing. A stronger NATO hurts China. A stronger Russia hurts China as they compete for control of BRICS/whatever sorta alliance they come up with.
Past performance is more indicative of the state of things than your naive predictions. If appeasement lobby wins in US and Ukraine loses because of it, EU-NATO starts wondering what's the point of the whole organization anyway. China? EU is even softer on them than on Russia before the war, and it's gonna have an argument to have even softer if USA just goes full appeasement on Russia. After all, politics of the Pacific region are less relevant to EU than to USA.
Stronger Russia doesn't hurt China, it shifts balance in BRICS, but the BRICS total is stronger if one of the major member is not a total failure.
Still, Russia has no hope of unseating China from its future leadership of BRICS, the economics aren't the same scale, but it can try to maintain relevance, at the expense of EU and its eastern flank especially.
For a kinda similar example, look at what's happened recently with Israel, Iran, and Saudi Arabia. Iran getting stronger strengthened Israel as they were able to get Saudi Arabia to get ever closer to an Israeli alliance (they wouldn't call it that, but that's what it is). Israel's enemy getting stronger helped it. Quite simply, you aren't looking at follow on events and how different groups interact.
Israel is as strong as it was, some Arabs are forced to hold their breath and make deals with da joos, at the same time other Arabs also hold their breath and ally with the Shia heretics against Israel and West.
I for one would think twice if any Israeli strategists would manage to hold their laughter if they heard your theory that "Israel's enemy getting stronger helped it". Is it some new hit slogan from the same school of strategy as "If you kill your enemies, they win"? They are in fact quite pissed off about USA not dealing with Iran permanently earlier.
With help like that, they don't even need enemity.
As far as the US is concerned, the Ukraine war is gambling with house money. Maybe we permanently end Russia as a threat forever by adding Ukraine, but either way we add Finland and Sweden to NATO and also reinforce NATO togetherness by providing an enemy. This really hits the ability of Russia to attack the Baltics, one of the key weaknesses in a Russian attack on NATO.
At the same time it further exposes Finnish border, and does nothing about irregular operations against Baltics and if they manage to regain some control of Ukraine, also Southeastern Europe.

Meanwhile in the world of material stuff, if you want European NATO to even be able (nevermind willing) to help against China, it will need to focus more on building ships, and i mean major, long endurance warships, not tiny corvettes and AIP subs, and other very long range deployment capabilities.
The bigger a threat Russia remains, the more Europe's military powers will have to invest into strategically immobile heavy forces to put on the borders with Russia and short range aviation, things of little use if they are to help intervene against China due to how logistically nightmarish would it be to move them to the right region, nevermind the ever-present cop-out of "we can't send stuff because Russia may attack at any moment taking the opportunity us moving forces to counter China's attack gave them", such force distraction is already a major fear with the ME hotspots as those do need warships to deal with now.
As things stand, European NATO, even though it has plenty of reasons and motivations to take up those MENA problems far more than it does and relieve US naval forces to focus on Pacific, can't do it, because their navies can't scrounge together the right number of right ships, and probably not even of wrong ships.
 
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I'm not so sure. If Russia stops, will will Ukraine? Not automatically. With massive US money coming in, on the condition that they die for your desires, I don't think they will.
No, US aid isn't for use invading Russia, and that you think it actually would be allowed shows how out of touch you are on this subject.
Unless the Ukraine is willing to stop, and Russia as well, the war will not stop. As you have said in this thread, the US is using Ukraine to weaken Russia. However it started, whatever's in the backstory, this is a horror with immense deaths, and you are in favor of all the deaths and horror involved.
Again, you are presupposing Ukraine is going to reverse-invade Russia, if Russia removes it's troops from Ukraine, just as default.

That's a stupid assumption.
I thought better of you.
I thought you had better critical thinking and observation skills.

But since you think Ukraine will continue over Russia's border if the Russian's remove their troops, obviously I was wrong.
Dude you are delusional about this conflict, There are no numbers of Ukrainians you will not sacrifice so long as your asinine anti Russian views are met.
That's why Ukraine is building so many drones, and now has the first dedicated military branch just for drone operations, so they don't have to do man-on-man fighting as much going forward.
 
Pretty much. They wont let Ukraine negotiate or surrender. When then is done, Ukraine is going to look like Paraguay after the war of the triple alliance.
Ukraine is so in this fight, they want to fight for their freedoms so bad, that they have to arrest men trying to leave, enslave (draft) 40+ year Olds because they're running out of younger meat for the grinder, and now start putting them on a digital currency that they can lock down if they don't cooperate.

Can't you see how much the Ukrainian people want to fight this war?!
 
I for one would think twice if any Israeli strategists would manage to hold their laughter if they heard your theory that "Israel's enemy getting stronger helped it". Is it some new hit slogan from the same school of strategy as "If you kill your enemies, they win"? They are in fact quite pissed off about USA not dealing with Iran permanently earlier.
... It objectively did. Literally everyone says this, it's fairly common knowledge. Neocons like Ben Shapiro even say it.
 
Pretty much. They wont let Ukraine negotiate or surrender. When then is done, Ukraine is going to look like Paraguay after the war of the triple alliance.

What foreign power was forcing the Paraguayans to prosecute the War of the Triple Alliance against their will?

Was this the same foreign power that forced the Paraguayans to prosecute a protracted Guerrilla campaign following the failure of conventional fighting?

This sounds like an impressive power indeed.
 
Yes. As I said in my post, "who later turned against the one that "made" him.". Backstabbing your former patrons is a long-established tradition there.
Or...he is actually going through with cleaning up his country.
The people Bidens family is in bed with?
Wanted by Ukraine...
 
Reading that a major company used offshore holdings to mitigate tax liabilities from an illiberal government was both shocking and disturbing to hear. It shook me to my moral core as I sadly realized I could never achieve such corruptible power.

The fact that a political opponent during a campaign accused Zelensky of serious financial irregularities and crimes though, that sounds unprecedented. No one should run, much less serve in office, if accused by a political opponent of any sort of crime or misdemeanor. Keep these political campaigns clean people!
 

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