Maybe not death penalty, but these people need actual punishment. I'd say some jail time plus being unable to serve in public office and other restrictions should work. Though for others I say send them to break rocks in Alaska.
Election 2020 Election 2020: It's (almost) over! (maybe...possibly...ahh who are we kidding, it's 2020!)
- Thread starter Emperor Tippy
- Start date
Maybe not death penalty, but these people need actual punishment. I'd say some jail time plus being unable to serve in public office and other restrictions should work. Though for others I say send them to break rocks in Alaska.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Obeyed Obama to leave but disobeyed Trump to not leave?
Interesting that. I wonder why that might be, hmmm. Wonder if it is, because Obama actually is an insider and not the agent of hope and change he claimed to be. While Trump even though he is from the upper class really is an outsider, who is more intune with the teaming masses of the people?
I'm going to ask you nicely this once not to do that again. Advocating for the Death penalty while not strictly against the rules is frowned upon. I understand the sentiment, but I'd see a full investigation and let the courts handle this, if they do. I'm asking you to exercise a little restraint.
Xilizhra
Well-known member
She.
dread it, run from it, Trump's Legal Team Failing is inevitable. Anyway i'm sue those voting fraud indictments are gonna drop from the DOJ any day now.
There are four interrelated issues that all, to a greater or lesser extent, will decide the challenges.
The first is what I will call Election Administration issues. While present to some extent in all of the disputed states, this is most prominent in PA and WI.
The basic premise for these claims is that the Governor/AG/SOS/Election Board/etc. conducted the election in a way that violated the statute passed by the relevant state Legislature and this is a violation of the US Constitution (which vests sole authority over this topic in the hands of said legislatures).
These Election Administration claims are where the Trump team stands the best chance of a positive outcome. First, there is already a pending SCOTUS case (the PA case) that will have to answer the basic question and at least four votes for Trump exist (how Roberts and ACB will jump is unknown). If SCOTUS rules that state election law controls then PA will have hundreds of thousands of ballots tossed out and the ballots tossed massively favor Biden. It will likewise affect a great many ballots in WI and MI.
The basic thrust is that state law in all those states requires that Republican observers be allowed access to the ballot counting (and other parts of the process) and there is tons of evidence that the election administrators blocked them. Prove that fact in court and, combined with SCOTUS ruling that state law controls, EVERY ballot tabulated without the observers present is void and assumed fraudulent.
The second issue is Voter Fraud. This would be the dead people voting, the ballot harvesting of nursing homes, the alleged ballot stuffing in Detroit and Nevada, etc. The only two states where this is liable to have a real impact are Michigan and Nevada. In MI it is because of the Dominion whistleblower as her allegations call into question hundreds of thousands of votes, in Nevada it is because of the claims of ballots being filled out in a Biden-Harris van right outside the election office. Proving voter fraud to a level to get the courts to act is very difficult though. The real goal of these lawsuits is honestly to just get to discovery and make noise. Overturning the results would be nice but is unlikely to happen (excepting, again, maybe MI and NV).
Third we have election fraud. This is basically voter fraud taken to a systemic level and coordinated by election officials. MI is again the place this is most likely to be provable. It certainly occurred in Georgia as well but that wouldn't be proven without a results audit and the Governor and SoS went weak on having one of those.
The fourth is electronic fraud. This is manipulation of the electronic voting machines, tabulation systems, and poll books to advantage one candidate. This is basically the whole "Dominion" issue.
Of the four, electronic fraud is the most likely to alter the election outcome because if it can be proven then it will force detailed results audits of more than twenty states. Prove that the Dominion machines were switching Trump votes to Biden and Biden will not be President, Congress will refuse to certify him if nothing else.
Ignoning electronic fraud, the election administration issues are the next best path for Trump. Win the pending SCOTUS case and it becomes relatively easy for him to flip PA, WI, and MI as hundreds of thousands of ballots end up tossed. On the plain merits of the law, the Trump side is almost overwhelmingly in the right but at this level it is at least as much politics as it is judicial principals at play so what happens is * shrug *.
Voter fraud is a true occurrence but proving it to the extent needed under many years of court precedent to get election results overturned is essentially impossible.
Election fraud is tied up in the voter fraud and election administration issues.
The first is what I will call Election Administration issues. While present to some extent in all of the disputed states, this is most prominent in PA and WI.
The basic premise for these claims is that the Governor/AG/SOS/Election Board/etc. conducted the election in a way that violated the statute passed by the relevant state Legislature and this is a violation of the US Constitution (which vests sole authority over this topic in the hands of said legislatures).
These Election Administration claims are where the Trump team stands the best chance of a positive outcome. First, there is already a pending SCOTUS case (the PA case) that will have to answer the basic question and at least four votes for Trump exist (how Roberts and ACB will jump is unknown). If SCOTUS rules that state election law controls then PA will have hundreds of thousands of ballots tossed out and the ballots tossed massively favor Biden. It will likewise affect a great many ballots in WI and MI.
The basic thrust is that state law in all those states requires that Republican observers be allowed access to the ballot counting (and other parts of the process) and there is tons of evidence that the election administrators blocked them. Prove that fact in court and, combined with SCOTUS ruling that state law controls, EVERY ballot tabulated without the observers present is void and assumed fraudulent.
The second issue is Voter Fraud. This would be the dead people voting, the ballot harvesting of nursing homes, the alleged ballot stuffing in Detroit and Nevada, etc. The only two states where this is liable to have a real impact are Michigan and Nevada. In MI it is because of the Dominion whistleblower as her allegations call into question hundreds of thousands of votes, in Nevada it is because of the claims of ballots being filled out in a Biden-Harris van right outside the election office. Proving voter fraud to a level to get the courts to act is very difficult though. The real goal of these lawsuits is honestly to just get to discovery and make noise. Overturning the results would be nice but is unlikely to happen (excepting, again, maybe MI and NV).
Third we have election fraud. This is basically voter fraud taken to a systemic level and coordinated by election officials. MI is again the place this is most likely to be provable. It certainly occurred in Georgia as well but that wouldn't be proven without a results audit and the Governor and SoS went weak on having one of those.
The fourth is electronic fraud. This is manipulation of the electronic voting machines, tabulation systems, and poll books to advantage one candidate. This is basically the whole "Dominion" issue.
Of the four, electronic fraud is the most likely to alter the election outcome because if it can be proven then it will force detailed results audits of more than twenty states. Prove that the Dominion machines were switching Trump votes to Biden and Biden will not be President, Congress will refuse to certify him if nothing else.
Ignoning electronic fraud, the election administration issues are the next best path for Trump. Win the pending SCOTUS case and it becomes relatively easy for him to flip PA, WI, and MI as hundreds of thousands of ballots end up tossed. On the plain merits of the law, the Trump side is almost overwhelmingly in the right but at this level it is at least as much politics as it is judicial principals at play so what happens is * shrug *.
Voter fraud is a true occurrence but proving it to the extent needed under many years of court precedent to get election results overturned is essentially impossible.
Election fraud is tied up in the voter fraud and election administration issues.
I apologize for the error.
Why are you so happy about this anyways? It sounds like you actually want fraud to occur, because normal people would be alright with people challenging an election when they believe there has been some sketchy business going on.
Except that those cases are being filed for procedural reasons, not because of any expectation of winning them.
What matters in PA is the pending SCOTUS case because that will have to answer whether PA law or the determination of PA courts/executive branch control the validity of PA ballots.
If SCOTUS rules that PA law determines what is a valid ballot then Trump wins all of these cases. PA law is very clear that a ballot shall be signed and dated or it is not valid.
Unhappy Anchovy
Well-known member
Hypothetically speaking, what would need to happen in order for you to believe:
1) that Joe Biden will be the next president of the United States?
2) that Joe Biden was legitimately elected the next president of the United States?
3) that there was no election fraud and no significant voter fraud in the 2020 presidential election?
I'm just finding it cute that you all seemed to have convinced yourself of a fantasy that lets you ignore objective reality.
Supreme court's gonna punt cause it's well-established that the legislature in the counstion refers to the states legislative process rather than solely the legislature. Your record on legal analysis and predicting what the SCOTUS would do has been terrible and I think you should disclose to people that fact causes you're just giving them false hope at this point.
You kept claiming on SB that SCOTUS would overrule the PA supreme court when they redrew the gerrymandered district lines when in fact they unainmoiously denied even considering the case and in a latter case explicitly reaffirmed that state supreme courts have that power.
Stop holding yourself out as some sort of election law expert when it's clear that you have no relevant legal qualifications/
Supreme Court Delivers Blow To Republicans, Declines To Take Up Pa. Redistricting
The court decided Monday not to take up a GOP challenge to a Pennsylvania state court decision that could result in Democrats picking up a handful of House seats.
www.npr.org
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PeliusAnar
Well-known member
1) That the states appoint enough electors to appoint Biden.
2) Audits of all ballots in states with close elections and laws of those states and the Federal Government upheld.
3) Full audit of all ballots and transparency, see #2
EDIT:
Hypothetically speaking, what would need to happen in order for you to believe:
1) That there was election fraud?
2) That the vast majority fraud perpetrated by Democrats or their operatives?
3) The amount of fraud needed to be reported so it is enough to change the outcome of the election with SCOTUS?
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1) For him to be elected in the electoral college.
2) For it to be proven beyond a reasonable doubt that he actually was. Plenty of reasons to believe he did.
3) Impossible, there is never no fraud in elections. For an actual investigation to actually disprove the claims, or disprove them to a reasonable doubt.
What would convince you that fraud took place? A hand appearing on a wall, clearly writing that there was fraud?
No it is you who are denying objective reality. And really if you had nothing to fear you wouldn't be protesting loudly. If you had objective reality on your side, you wouldn't keep on getting smashed down by us. And we aren't the ones who chased a fake Russia conspiracy for four or so years. Denied that Trump was your president. Denied frankly anything you didn't like, so don't give me that.
You are projecting your own faults on people, so why don't you just return to your own fantasy land and ride around on Falgor?
The Biden campaign stops any and all attempts to fight recounts/recanvasing/audits of the election, turns over all paperwork related to the Dem operatives in charge of Dominion voting systems, and publicly insists on no Dem or Leftist harasses anyone related to Trump's legal team, adminstration, or supporters, and publicly rebukes any of their members who have in the past (AOC, Maxine Waters, etc.).
Only after all of that is done could I be convince Biden could have won legitly.
Please read the post and the context of the links, and how they prove that tippy has a track record of getting election law and SCOTUS decisions wrong.
I've never once denied that possibility.
A full and thorough results audit of the disputed states. Instead we get the media and Democrats expecting Biden to just be anointed and absolutely refusing to engage with any of the many substantiated allegations of "irregularities" in this election; many of which they themselves were openly talking about only months ago.
Nothing less will convince the Republican base that Biden won an honest election
A full and complete results audit with transparency.
You only need four votes to take a case. Gorsuch, Alito, and Thomas have all already indicated that they would grant the case. Any one of Roberts, ACB, or Kavanaugh is all it takes for the case to be granted.
You also have more than a dozen states filing amicus briefs telling SCOTUS to take the case. It is a live issue of critical national importance, and for the court's credibility if nothing else they have to grant it.
StormEagle
Well-known member
Jesus of Nazareth coming down from heaven to personally tell me to my face that there was no fraud and that Biden was legitimately elected.
More seriously:
This would be a good start.
One example is not a track record you nonce. If you want a track record bring up some more examples...well if it isn't against the rules of the board. I don't want to bait you into an infraction, even if I dislike you, that wouldn't be kosher and it would be wrong.
They'll punt on it, Not Even Alito or Thomas wanted to take up the PA case. It's very well established that states supreme courts have the final say in deciding what state law is. Anyway you've got zero credibility as a legal commentator so I'm not sure where this confidence is coming from.
...
Alito, Gorsuch, and Thomas have all publicly expressed that they want to take the case. Four votes already existed to overturn PA Supreme Court but Roberts went wobbly.
Alito has ordered the ballots in question be segregated on the expectation that SCOTUS will take up the case.
Thomas has literally said that SCOTUS should grant the case.