We will really never know how badly Trump won because of that.
Imagine if it was fair
Election 2020 Election 2020: It's (almost) over! (maybe...possibly...ahh who are we kidding, it's 2020!)
- Thread starter Emperor Tippy
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Imagine if it was fair
mesonoxian
Well-known member
It isn't a both sides issue. Plenty of right wing source (Breitbart, OAN, Project Veritas) are thinly veiled propaganda outlets meant to sway low information viewers. The "mainstream media" on the other hand is beholden to profit, unwilling to say anything that will threaten their billionaire owners, and devoted to providing the illusion of equivalence because controversies are more profitable than telling the truth when one side is in the wrong. (Fox News is that rare delightful entity which belongs to both camps). The mainstream media aren't as likely to put out something completely detached from reality, but they aren't unbiased, it just isn't a leftward bias, it is a bias toward profit.
As to Trump winning so hard, I can't tell if you're joking or not.
I thinking looking at the House races, and getting ahold of the data in those servers to backtrack, could give us a ball park at least.
How did Biden do better then Obama?
mesonoxian
Well-known member
I bet the secret cabal of Democratic election thieves must have been kicking themselves when they realized they accidentally voted for Republicans down ballot.
Obama was a black dude running against John McCain. Biden is a white dude running against a uniquely incompetent and corrupt president that a lot of people hate. Most of those Biden votes were people voting against Trump, not necessarily people who love Biden or the Democrats.
How did Biden beat Obamas numbers when Trump had more support then every previous republican president with minorities?
mesonoxian
Well-known member
He didn't. Trump lied when he said that.
D
Deleted member 88
Guest
IIRC Trump won something like 15-16% of the black male vote, something like 4-8% of the black female vote, thus 10-12% of the total African American vote and 30% IIRC total Hispanic support.
For a Republican those are very good numbers.
They don’t necessarily imply a winning coalition though, as Dems have usually won minorities at margins exceeding 90-95%.
I did hear that Biden under performed Hillary in big cities. But over performing Obama, especially in say Philadelphia, Detroit or New York-that doesn’t pass the smell test.
At least for me.
Arch Dornan
Oh, lovely. They've sent me a mo-ron.
Or they could have just filled out the POTUS race, and left the down ballot stuff blank.
And if they needed to fabricate a bunch of ballots real fast, it would also be an issue of them being under a time-crunch. Filling out all the races would take a lot more time.
Your argument has been used by other Lefty trolls who have come by to try to get some salt from us and/or troll us, and we've gotten pretty good at picking apart these arguments.
You do if you want to keep making the claim.
Because this isn't SB.
Chris Krebs name is not on that release, try again.As for what Krebs said, here is the statement:
Joint Statement from Elections Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council & the Election Infrastructure Sector Coordinating Executive Committees | CISA
The members of Election Infrastructure Government Coordinating Council (GCC) Executive Committee – Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency (CISA) Assistant Director Bob Kolasky, U.S. Election Assistance Commission Chair Benjamin Hovland, National Association of Secretaries of State...www.cisa.gov
Specifically: "There is no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes, or was in any way compromised." I would think a server full of secret crime votes would contradict that.
Yea no...
This isn't SB, I never actually made the claim that the raid happened, and you don't get to try to shift the burden of proof on this. The only thing I pointed out was what Powell actually said.
Actually Trump is up over a full percentage point in concerns to popular vote percentages from the 2016 election.
mesonoxian
Well-known member
I mean, if you consider that "picking them apart", sure.
That's because it isn't true.
I've never posted on SB. I just have no problem calling somebody who makes a ridiculous claim with no evidence a liar.
I don't care if Kreb's name is on it, that is the statement his department released. But please, carry on with this pedantic nitpicking, it's doing a great job distracting from the fact that Powell is very clearly making this shit up.
I don't think a "full percentage point" represents much significant. He lost both times.
D
Deleted member 88
Guest
There was a pandemic, in which Trump was blamed for 200K deaths, and a tanked economy. Also suburbanites have probably become more liberal, if not in their pocketbooks, more in what they consider good manners. But Trump IIRC held Republican suburbs despite the suburban White women not liking trump’s crassness talking point. Still, he seemed to have declined amongst more well to do white folks.
The election had a rather high turn out by American standards, and higher turn out has always favored the Democrats.
Anti Trump sentiment was 100% maximum intensity for the last four years, so anyone who didn’t like the Orange Man was going to vote against him anyway.
Personally I don’t think Trump did enough for his supporters, especially in the mid west. He should have had more interventionist economic policies in the rust belt, but this election is hardly the titanic repudiation of Trump and Trumpism many pundits and commentators had hoped for.
Hmm.. as I said, a rather high turn out election which would of course lead to higher turn out in urban areas. So it wouldn’t surprise me he outperformed Hillary in say Philadelphia or Boston.
As to why there was a higher turn out? Maximum enthusiasm by both sides, and a crashed economy. Which likely motivated folks to head to the polls because they felt the country was going down hill. For what reason, depends on your partisanship.
mesonoxian
Well-known member
That's rather my point. A lot of people were motivated to come out and vote against him.
Unfortunately you are right, Trump still has a lot of supporters, because a lot of people either believe delusional nonsense like Qanon, make a profit off of Trump's policies, or like his brutalization of minorities.
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D
Deleted member 88
Guest
QAnon is a boomer attempt at making sense of a world that isn’t 1980 anymore.
Trump represents for the bulk of his supporters, their man, their savior, the person they sent to fight those who have treated them so terribly. The man himself has many flaws, but he is invested with an almost divine aurora by people who just want someone who will represent them, and fight for them.
Trump is the people’s collective want reified into an imperfect man.
The point of the rallies is to build that bond, between leader and the masses. The masses are invested for him, and have sent him to represent their will.
mesonoxian
Well-known member
Yeah, that's basic fascism.
People are angry, for good reasons and bad, and a guy comes along and feeds their worst impulses and directs their anger at vulnerable scapegoats while developing a parasocial relationship with them, encouraging them to identify their sense of self with him.
This makes me feel bad for Trump. He was doing like 4 and 5 rally's a day, he probably wishes it wasn't so close last time so worked extra hard this time. If the fraud is true he could have had a blowout with both the electoral and popular vote. He would have had a clear mandate and the various scandals would have been behind him. He would have the experience of the first 4 years, knew who he could trust better and have loyal people in positions finally. He also wouldn't have to worry about reelection so could really start hammering the left through both tweets and executive orders.
Even if he manages to keep the presidency the left are going to whine the next 4 years about how uncovering their cheating is really Trump cheating with all of the double think and gaslighting that implies. Bright side though is he's almost certainly pist that the left have sunk this low and fucked with his presidency yet again. So if he wins we might finally see some real damage inflicted on the commie left and traitor Republican's who showed their true colors when they thought he was finally stumped. Fucking pray he can pull yet another win out of his ass bros and broette's.
mesonoxian
Well-known member
Forget "whining". Realistically, Trump isn't going to be president after Jan 2021. But if he somehow were to steal the presidency, it's going to make 1968 look like the Era of Good Feelings. I don't know if we'd actually wind up with a civil war, but a lot of terrible things would happen before it stopped. A lot of people haven't acted violently because of belief that Trump could and would be voted out of office. If the result of the election is cancelled, they aren't going to hold back. I do not want that to happen. I'm one of the "commie left", but believe it or not I love my neighbors and family, Trump supporters and otherwise, and I don't want to see the kind of harm this would do to them.
D
Deleted member 88
Guest
It seems then the Republican electorate wants fascism. Given they have a 95% support of Trump. That doesn’t seem problematic to me, if the people want fascism, then their will should be respected.
But then, I don’t have an issue with fascism per se. I’d outright admit I’m a fellow traveler of fascism.
It’s clear the establishment does not represent the people, and Trump has been invested with his supporters’ hopes, fears, and dreams.
Trump may not be the best man for such a burden, but he is who is supporters love, and have given themselves too anyway.
mesonoxian
Well-known member
Yeah, they do want fascism, no doubt. Frankly there has been a fascistic (or proto-fascistic) thread running through American political life since before the Civil War.
I have a big problem with it, because it will likely mean death and horrible abuses for a lot of innocent people. That isn't okay with me.